More on Bad Law School Grades

I don't have much more to say about getting off to a bumpy start in law school, gradewise. But good heavens, lots of people are doing Google searches or writing me about it. My heart goes out to all of those of you who were disappointed, heartbroken, shaken by your grades, who are now doubting yourself and looking to Google to make sense of it all.

Look, guys, I got a C- and a C+ my first semester of law school. (And two A-s and a B+, to be complete). I was 22nd in the class after that. The next semester I got two As, a couple of A-s, and another B+, and I was 4th in the class. I just kept moving up, and I graduated first. So it's not hopeless. You're not destined to have dismal grades for the rest of your law school career. They needn't hold you back.

Stop gnashing your teeth about what these grades MEAN about who you are and what you're capable of and what the Rest of Your Life is limited to. You are just as smart as you were the day before you got your grades. And now you know something you didn't know before: what to expect from law school exams. March your butt into your professors' offices and sit down with the exam and talk to them about it. We all know you studied your head off, but did you articulate what you knew, or did you study the wrong stuff, or did you have trouble identifying the issues, or were you a disorganized mess, or did you confuse the terminology, or what? Whichever one(s) it was, you're going to fix it next semester. The professor will help you, if you ask. And now you know to ask.

[UPDATE: I notice from my referrer log that suddenly (1/23/04) lots of people are getting here from some kind of lawschool.westlaw.com/forum page. It's a page I can't get access to, so I don't know how I got linked from there. Anyway, I'm a little curious about what's being said over there -- any visitors want to fill me in? Thx much....]

Comments

[Thinking of quitting]

It's the summer before 2L for me. My GPA so far is around a 2.6 and I have one more grade left to come in, from spring semester. I go to a mid tier 2 school. I managed to get an unpaid internship this summer, but I'm seriously wondering if it's gonna be worth coming back next year. Job opps. after graduation will be hard to come by, and the thought of 100k+ of loan money to pay back scares the shit out of me.

[Need a job]

I just graduated and have AWFUL grades. My gpa is a 2.4. I am definately having trouble finding employment, while "most" of my other classmates that had even decent grades (3.0 and above) are employed. I am seriously considering going solo if something doesn't happen soon. I don't think you need to strive for straight A's, but if you want any chance of decent employment straight out of law school, I think a 3.0 is a bare minimum.

If you can't get a job with a firm when you graduate because you didn't get good grades, consider opening your own practice. Even if you don't make much money, if you can at least survive for a year, you'll have something to put on your resume that future employers will be interested in. Bad grades in law school don't have to be the end.

[CJackson]

I appreciate your words of encouragement, but 22nd in your class after your first semester is not bad grades. I just finished my first semester and I'd give anything to be graduate 22nd in my class or have a single A by my name.

[Loser]

I got my first grades back. YIKES! I'm just hoping to graduate sometime in the next 3 years or so...

[Matt]

I had a 2.3 GPA after my first semester at a regional law school. I moved up to a 2.78 GPA after three years, and I was ranked in the bottom in my class throughout school. My grades depressed me, but I passed the bar exam on my first try. Now I'm starting a job with the federal government, and I'm very happy that it's a civil service job and not a legal position.

The only benefits I can think of if you have outstanding grades are: big-firm jobs (where you are willing to sacrifice 70 intense hours a week) or your pick of government jobs (US attorney, federal agencies, etc.) If you want to live a happy, purposeful life, I'm pretty sure you won't find it in a law firm.

[Natalie]

I have never felt so down on myself and incompetent as during this year and a half of law school! I'd always done very well in undergrad, gotten killer internships, and had four years of work experience before deciding to get my J.D.. I did poorly during my first year--even landing myself on ACADEMIC PROBATION. Honestly, how to explain a D in Contracts of all things?! My school has a great public interest mission (the reason why i'm here) but a laughable academic reputation yet they refuse to ever curve grades! So, now, not only did I do crappy but I did crappy at a third rate school. And despite how it may seem, the competition to do public interest work where you'll start base at 40K is VERY competitive. Why am I here??? I feel like I'm stuck in a very very bad marriage. I think I made a mistake but I'm in too deep to quit now. Why am I going into crazy debt to come out the other side a WORSE job candidate???? It really, really stinks.

[Sameboat]

To Matt,
Sometimes the harder you work the more pressure you put on yourself. I, too, am on probation left wondering if law school is really a fit. I didn't try as hard as I could have my first semester and consequently had one bad grade putting my enrollment in peril. I just took a property midterm after intense study and feel I have wasted my time. Many of the students in class were upset by the difficulty of the exam and how different it was from our first pre-midterm exam. The professor pulled the old bait and switch. Why? I don't know. Seems like a club for those that get it and those that don't. The art of thinking like another keeps things the way they are and maintains how they will be--regardless of what is best for the profession or the student. In the end, I am left questioning the law school system's testing and grading methods. And yes, I am questioning myself as well. I don't know where this will end up but must believe it will all be for the best. I wish you luck and trust you will find your way.

[ES]

Does anybody know what grade would warrant taking a law school class over? I mean, I got credit for the class, and all the credits I need at this point to graduate, but how much should I worry about spending extra money and time taking a class over?

[In Shock and Awe]

I just completed my first year at a top-tier law school, ranked top 30 or so nationally.

Fall semester I did okay, particularly since I didn't open a book until finals, and was probably in the top third to top half of my class. I received 2 Bs and an A.

Second semester, I studied like crazy because I figured I could do better than Bs if I opened a book. I outlined EVERY class as I read. I read every fricking page of the casebook. I just got back my property law grade - a class I really liked and thought I understood - and it is a C-. That is the lowest grade they give. I am STUNNED. I am probably 1 of 2 people to have received a C-. The bad part is, I have yet to receive Contracts II and Civ Pro grades, and those were classes that I walked out thinking, "Oh, that was definitely a C." I honestly may have C-minuses across the board. I have no idea what the hell happened.

And while some people on this blog say, "Admit it - you're stupid," I'm not! I graduated Phi Beta Kappa and summa cum laude from a top tier undergraduate, I'm clerking for a federal judge this summer in a major city well-known for its law firms, I'm supposed to be a TA for legal writing in the fall (though maybe not anymore), and I've received awards for moot court and legal writing courses.

I'm totally freaked out that I'm going to be put on academic probation. I've basically given up any hopes of getting ANY job for next summer (and I never wanted to do corporate law either - just bleeding heart "let's save this building" stuff).

Is there anyway I'm not totally screwed here?

[R]

I got slightly below average grades... even though I worked very hard (here is what I've learned):

I was troubled by deep existential questions about whether I should be in law school or not...

The first semester I could barely study, even though I wanted to I couldn't lift the first page of a book because every time I tried I would feel a rush of painful reminders that I may have made a mistake in coming to law school. During finals my long time girlfriend (6 years) left me. I was able to study a little thanks to some girl that asked my to go over final exams with her (I think she liked me too, which god bless her, really helped me). But I had a terrible frame of mind going into finals.

When I finished finals I was devastated, utterly broken emotionally. I went back home and freaked out my parents and didn't leave my room for most of winter (even though home is in the tropics, with perfect wheather). When I did leave my room I spent most of the time trying to hit on girls unsuccesfully and then I would go back to my room by myself and feel like crap.

I watched a lot of really good movies that winter that seemed to be timed almost perfectly to my depression, and I think they helped get me out of it. My favorate was probably "The Peaceful Warrior".

I went back to school and got my grades... I got a B,B,B-. It kind of lifted my spirits that I had done that well even in the terrible state I had been in.

Next semester I came up with a strategy for not falling into that emotional trap. I simply said, "you're not allowed to complain or even think about a complaint until after law school".

So I tried that, and it worked amazingly well, it was hard to get depressed about anything if you couldn't complain. I had a great mood, I was going to class, doing all of the readings, I stoped breifing because I thought it was a waste of time, but I discovered ways of understanding the cases that worked very well. Essentially I would read a case and not stop working on that case until I understood it. I did that for every case and that was my only form of studying.

Going into second semester finals I spent about $500 on every comercial study aid available. I did hundreds of problems, I read multiple outlines, I was in a study group that was great and where I was treated like one of the smartest guys. Going into finals I felt invincible, I was sure I would get at least a few B+, enough to get into the green... then I got my grades. B,B,B- and no legal writting grade yet, but I'm betting C or B-. So I probably have a gpa somewhere in the high 2s.

I feel pretty bad about it. But, I have to say doing all of that work, even if it didn't pay off... was kind of fun. When I was done with finals I was kind of sad to see it end. I had never worked so hard, been so confident or certain I was doing the right thing in my life.

I don't know how hurt I'm going to be by my grades, but they are not super low. They are just improperly average. I still have two years to go, so hopefully if I can alianate enough of my friends, loose a little more hair, not sleep and let myself go enough... I may be able to get a few B+ :-P

I refuse to believe, even if I worked my ass off, that B is the highest grade I'm ever going to get. There were a lot of factors that second semester that affected that grade: (1) I once again started to wonder if I should be in law school, (2) writting the appellate brief assignment depressed me like hell, (3) my ex sort of got back together with me only to dump me during finals... AGAIN! (4) even though I worked hard, I could have worked harder, and I know it. I could have written my own outlines for example. (5) I came from great artschool where academic ability was not as important as creativity most of the time, at that school I was always the smartest in every class (not that it mattered :-P) so I never had to try very hard.

Here is what I think right now about bad grades, they don't matter. If you want to work in any profession you are going to run into obstacles, it is your choice whether that profession is worth it enough for you to continue to do it even though the odds are stacked against you. You should feel empowered by bad grades because now you are not locked in to law as your profession, you have the ability to choose what it is that you want. If you choose to stay in law, it is your choice, because it is what you want, so you can't let yourself get down because of bad grades, raise them if you can next time, and if you can't keep trying, go out and network, research job opportunities, hire a professional head hunter to get you a job, volunteer for extra curriculars and just work your ass off at whatever you do.

I always think it would be really interesting if I had to start life over again as a 25 year old beggar on the streets with no home. Would I turn to drugs and alcohol and beg for money for the rest of my life? Would I believe that because I look, smell like and live like a beggar that I am a beggar? Or would I recognize myself in the in the face of that beggar and say: "what the hell am I doing?". Would I get up, clean myself off, and try to get a life back together? I like to think that I would.

I think people are not truly alive if they do not have something that drives them, that pushes them forward to do well at all times. I believe that I will never surrender, no matter how many obstacles apear in my way. I will not be defeated by grades, by depression, by pricks who think they are better than me because they got better grades or by my self pity.

I am still myself, regardless of what any computer screen or piece of paper says I am. I will continue to battle with law, because I believe it is the right career for me. I couldn't give a rat's behind that I don't get a job right after law school. I will get a job, and I will do very well at it.

(By the way for anyone interested I've already met many great new girls who think I'm awesome so that part of my life is looking pretty good ;-P).

[my grades]

i graduated from a top liberal arts college cum laude with departmental honors..i went to a upper T2 on a scholarship and graduated with a 2.5 GPA...believe me life is tough when you have that gpa...i managed to find a job but it's really not good and i get rejected a lot...thinking of taking the gmats and going to get an mba

At least you didn't flunk out assholes!

[G.B. Morgan]

I just came upon this post and I find it encouraging. My younger sister, who just started law school is quite upset about her two C's in her first semester. Having gone through the whole process myself, I told her, it doesn't mean anything significant and that everything usually changes after the first semester. I am trying to find more encouraging interest articles to send her.

Firstly, grades are completely subjective in law school and the first semester is certainly not an accurate assessment of class rankings. I remember that by the time I was a 3L, I didn't even remember who was number 1 in the first semester.

In terms of opporunities, low GPA's are obviously not helpful right out of the starting gate. BUT, trust me, once you step insider "the door" and have professional experience, your grades will be irrelevant. Virtually no employer would ask an experienced attorney for a law school transcript! Essentially, as with most things, the game is about results whether you are a litigator, closer or researcher.

So, like I tell my sis (who is "just as smart as the day before she got her grades"), take a deep breath, let go and move on. After all, you are in law school and the opportunities are endless!

[Meg]

you people are ridiculous, especially the person who said their mark was 92, and everything else mediocre so they're embarrassed. GET SOME PERSPECTIVE. 92 is amazing, and you are in LAW SCHOOL. You are more educated that 99.9% of the world.

Further, you think your grades are bad? 1st year I had D+, C+, C, B, B,B. I just had 2 exams today (I'm in my 2nd year now) and I'm pretty sure I failed them both. I'm so disappointed in myself, but I am trying to remain focused on the wonderful things in my life.