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PG

I wasn't that tuned in when I was in high school -- I'm sure the drugs were almost as prevalent, but I didn't have my head up enough for that. Was very shocked when I found out at graduation that our valedictorian was a huge pot-head.

Charlsie

When the drug dogs would come to my high school, they would lock all the doors of the classrooms - no one was allowed to leave - and before they announced it the principles would check in the bathrooms and stuff and send everyone back to their classrooms - then we would all be locked in for the duration of the drug dog's visit.

Don't worry too much, my high school was full of drugs when I was there (I graduated in 1999), and I know that it is full of drugs now - but my friends who were heavy into the harder drugs in high school learned by the end of it that it wasn't going to get them any where, and almost all of them figured it out in the end.

I worry more about my friends that got heavily involved with drugs in college - although most of them figured it out eventually as well, in college the stakes are higher, there are less rules, and less people willing to pull you back up. There are some things that are excusable in a 18 year old as bad judgment that are harder to overlook in a 24 year old.

Most of my friends who did drugs in high school didn't do that many drugs in college, and most of my friends that did drugs in college, didn't do drugs in high school (this is just my experience with my close friends).

My friends in law school that do drugs - well - they are among some of the most successful in regards to getting the top grade and job, which is really scary - but at the same time there are a few that are already on the brink of disaster.

I guess in the end it is just another weeding out process. At every level, there are some people who can be functional drug abusers, and some people that can't. Which is also scary.

dgm

with all due respect , i'm not really sure i get the point of this post. i think it's great that the kids confide in you. i'm just not sure that giving them beer is the best and only way to win them over. i'm all for beer consumption, something i myself engage in and enjoy. but then again, i'm well over 21.

were i their parent, i'd be furious if my kid told me you gave her a beer at the ripe old age of 16. it doesn't take much to get a kid that age drunk. sure, i had had my first beer by then (and i thought it gross), but looking back i can't say i think too highly of the person who gave it to me. and you can be damn sure i'd be skeptical of any adult who comes around my kids purporting to be "cool." do you think that, notwithstanding what the teens think, the parents have made a mistake entrusting you with their kids? and would you feel differently in the parents' shoes?

i know that the kids survived their outing with you, so that is not the issue. do you really think you were acting as responsibly as you might have?

many readers will, i'm sure, jump to your defense. oh well. bring it on.

Scheherazade

DGM,

Thanks for the comment. Before you wrote in to challenge me, I didn't think too much about offering them each a beer, and you've made me reflect about that.

I definitely didn't do it to win anyone over or to appear 'cool.' I guess I did it because it seemed hospitable, and not too unreasonable. I had more beer available, in the trunk of my car, and when I selected only four to bring with us, I said to the kids something like, "It's very pleasant to have a beer on an afternoon sail, so I'll offer you each one, but only one, because I am responsible for you." To which they nodded.

I guess I thought that was reasonable because my own early experiences with alcohol came on boats, when I was offered a post-race beer along with the rest of the crew. It felt, then, like a mark of respect and an inclusive gesture, and I sipped it along with my fellow crew members without the intention or the result of drunkeness. Sometimes I did so alongside my dad. This happened for me at right about the same age -- 16 going on 17 -- as these kids are.

I can understand how some parents might be uncomfortable with what I did. I don't think it was wrong, myself. My own experience is that there's something different about a teenager sipping alcohol alongside an adult, in a context that's controlled by the adult, than the furtive attempts to get drunk that happen when unsupervised teenagers guzzle beer bought for them by an older sibling or booze snuck from a liquor cabinet.

I guess you've uncovered something here about my character. I don't see my role in relationships with teenagers to be a stand-in for the particular values of the state (with its official drinking age) or of the teenagers' parents. I hope you'll believe me that I also don't see my role as some kind of 'cool friend' or corrupting influence, doing whatever I think would curry favor with the teens. I try to use my own judgment and treat them sensibly, under the circumstances. Maybe I was wrong here about what was sensible. It didn't feel that way, though.

I'd be curious to hear what parents think, on two fronts. 1) Did I do wrong? and 2) Does an adult temporarily in custody of your teenage kids have a duty to act as you would toward those kids?

That parent you wondered about

Got three boys. Two teenagers, one younger. If my sister or brother offered one of them a beer without clearing it with me, I'd be FURIOUS. It's not their decision whether it's okay to offer my underage children alcohol, and my kids wouldn't be going anywhere alone with them again for a long, long time. For one thing, most kids are NOT going to turn down the offer of alcohol from an older/friend relative that they admire, even if they would under normal circumstances.

Nobody asked you to stand in for the values of the parents or the state. (To me, that would be taking their beer away if they brought it along, for instance, or giving them an anti-alcohol rant. Although to be honest, if a kid I was supervising brought some along, I'd give their parents a call before I'd let them drink it in my presence - because I'd hope a responsible adult would do the same for me in that situation.) But in offering them a beer, you might be directly contradicting the values of the parents. You might not - but either way, you didn't KNOW.

Scheherazade

That Parent:

I read your comment to say that, yes, you do expect an adult spending time with your teenagers to consult your values and wishes, not their own, and to be proceed only in a way they know (or are pretty sure) is consistent with those values. And to check if they're not certain. So although you say you don't expect them to stand-in for a parent's values, to me it sounds like you do, at least somewhat.

I'm not sure I completely disagree. Although I didn't ask my aunt explicitly, I felt pretty sure her approach to her son having a beer on a boat would be fairly relaxed. (e.g. She's joked about how the only thing my cousin likes about Ireland is that he can get into the pubs there.) If I'd known it would make her angry or outraged or betrayed, I probably wouldn't have done it. But I don't have any real sense of the other kids' parents, and it didn't occur to me to ascertain their views. If I learned that one of the kids' parents were strict teetotalers, I'm not sure I would have behaved differently. So I'm not sure I can get on board with the idea of being a proxy for parents after all.

Not attempting to undermine anyone's parenting here, although your comment makes me think that's how my decision could have been perceived.

dgm

scheherazade,
i hope you didn't take my comment as a parental scolding, and i appreciate that you responded with calm and reason.

i was prompted to comment on the post because 1) i thought it ironic you offered underage kids beer in the very post in which you describe the popularity and frequency of drugs based on teenage/high school access; and 2) since you seem very atuned to your relationships with others, i couldn't believe you might have been compromising your trust with the kids' parents. generally speaking (because obviously i don't know the specifics of your relationships with them), it was the kind of behavior that could end a trusting relationship. so, i felt strong temptation to comment.

having said that, i understand that you do not see yourself as a proxy for the state, and i wasn't suggesting that you should. the state makes generalizations about when minority ends and adulthood begins for the purposes of certain activities. some kids can handle a beer at 16, just as some are safe drivers at 14. if their parents want to let them do those things, i don't have a problem with that. if their parents are not present, a responsible adult is fine, but i think a "responsible adult" would be one who checked with the parents first.

beyond that, the concern i thought you might have with the underage drinking law is that in facilitating its violation, you expose yourself to charges as well. (not that i am comparing you or your behavior in any way to the king of pop, but michael jackson was charged with offering alcohol to minors in the form of "jesus juice.")

should you act as a proxy for the parents in this case? i'm not sure i'd say you have a moral obligation to act as the parents would with respect to all of their values, but when it comes to illegal activity you certainly have a legal obligation, if nothing else. beyond that, if your underlying goal is to maintain the parents' trust in you so that you can continue to spend time with their kid, i would think that you would want them to know that you will not undermine them.

someday

"So I'm not sure I can get on board with the idea of being a proxy for parents after all."

What you're missing here is that you did not do the neutral thing, though you seem to believe you did. But the neutral act is to do nothing either way. You both encouraged and facilitated the consumption of alcohol by three people five years under the legal age.

A parent doesn't have to be anything close to a teetotaler to think it's a bad idea for someone they barely know to give their underage child alcohol. Just as I don't have to disapprove of sex in general (an activity of which, in fact, I'm quite fond) to think it would be bad thing for a 30 year old to have sex with my 15 year old, and to hold that 30 year old more responsible than simply not being a stand-in for the values of the state or the parents.

Andy B

Your children are not your children
They are the sons and the daughters of life's longing for itself.
They come through you, but they are not of you
And though they are with you they belong not to you.
You can give them your love but not your thoughts
They have their own thoughts.
You can house their bodies but not their souls
For their souls dwell in a place of tomorrow
Which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You can strive to be like them but you cannot make them just like you.
Strive to be like them, but you cannot make them just like you.

--Khalil Gibran, _The Prophet_
(sung by Sweet Honey In The Rock)

Merideth Carleton

Have you seen this before? It's a number guessing game: http://www.amblesideprimary.com/ambleweb/mentalmaths/guessthenumber.html. I guessed 32887, and it got it right! Pretty neat.

Marilyn

Hello!^

its funny how many comments there are here about the 1 beer offered compared with the drug use discussed by the kids.. priorities?

you people are silly.

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